Engineering joy > selling stuff.

It’s really that simple. 

(But how do you do it?)

This week, Verity sits down with Content Creator, Social Strategist, and ‘Coldest Creative’ Founder, Joel Marlinarson. Together, they unpack the intersection where fashion, food, music, and culture collide online – and what smart brands are doing about it.

Joel’s built a platform decoding brand moves for his audience (over on @coldestjoel), while building for brands behind the scenes. He shares what’s working, what’s next, and what most brands are missing entirely.

 

Turn this on & up to learn how to…

• Brand Like a Musician: From Cowboy Carter to Brat, musicians are leading the experiential game. Joel breaks down why brands should start thinking more like them.
  
  
• Win with Small Joys: The "little treat" moment is more than a trend. Discover how food, feeling, and brand identity fuse to create Advocacy-ready experiences.
  
  
• Track What Actually Matters: Forget followers. Joel shares why repeat commenters and micro-engagements are the real signal of brand love.
  
  
• Build In-Jokes & Icons: Learn how obscure memes, emoji signals, and recurring brand language can create loyalty (and drive people to comment).
  
  
• Cast Wider: Gen Z doesn’t have to speak to Gen Z. From retail staff to over-50s creators, Joel shares how unexpected casting builds connection.
  
  
• Use EGC The Right Way: From ethics to execution, this is how to make employee content fair, diverse, and seriously effective.

From Loewe’s tomato hot air balloons to finding your own “Juno” moment, this chat covers what makes culture tick – and how brands can keep up.

 

Chapters

00:00 – Why Music Marketing Works Better Than Brand Campaigns
06:00 – Brat. Cowboy Carter. Juno: What Brands Can Learn
08:00 – Food as Feel-Good Branding
10:00 – In-Jokes, Emojis & Repeat Commenters: Signals of True Community
14:00 – Is Sass Out? Why Ryanair’s TOV Might Be Tired
20:00 – Doing EGC Right (& Fair)
26:00 – Weird But Works: The Best Brand Collabs
30:00 – Silver Economy & The Power of Over-50s Influencers

 

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Connect with Joel:

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Joel Marlinarson [00:00:00]:

Brands should take note from musicians because even when we think about Charli XCX's brat and how huge that was last year and how the pop ups weren't just enjoyable in person, but everywhere on social, it's because it was so easy to identify with. All you had to do was wear a green T shirt and all of a sudden you're part of the movement. Even if you're looking at the Cowboy Carter Tour coverage, all you have to do is wear a cowboy hat and have a really fun outfit and you're part of the movement. So having something that people can see online and instantly identify with the brand, whether it's a colour, whether it's an outfit, whether it's a mood, that is a way that I think brands should be looking.

 

Paul Archer [00:00:46]:

Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well, don't. I do all the time, and that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come. My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in brand advocacy and word of mouth, having consulted for hundreds of brands on a topic.

 

Verity Hurd [00:01:19]:

Hey, it's Verity here, your co host of the Building Brand Advocacy podcast.

 

Paul Archer [00:01:24]:

In this podcast we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world. They share the exact tactics and strategies used to build the world's greatest brands, dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.

 

Verity Hurd [00:01:35]:

We've got some incredible guests coming up, sharing insights and tips that can truly shift the marketing landscape. If you want to be the first to hear, make sure you hit that follow button. The more people following the show, the bigger and better we can make it. So if you're loving what you hear, don't forget to follow and spread the word. Thanks again for listening. It really means a lot. I hope you enjoy this next episode.

 

Paul Archer [00:01:58]:

It's time to learn and build brand advocacy.

 

Verity Hurd [00:02:02]:

Hello and welcome to Building Brand Advocacy Today. I'm thrilled to welcome the most awesome content creator, social media strategist and creative consultant Joel. And if you are not following Joel's socials, particularly his TikTok, then you're really missing a trick because he is sharing the most on point industry tactics and sharing some amazing examples of the brands killing it right now. Welcome Joel.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:02:27]:

Oh, thank you for the intro. Great Mindy talk.

 

Verity Hurd [00:02:31]:

Do you Want to just let our audience know a little bit more about you and a little bit more insight into what you're doing right now.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:02:37]:

Hi, my name's Joel Marlinarsen, content creator and social media strategist. Working with brands both in front and behind the camera. On my TikTok, I break down brands, marketing, what's viral, what's next and behind the scenes. I work on social strategy, creative consulting, workshops, shooting and editing, mainly in fashion, food and celebrity, and have that insight both as a creator with my own platform and working with brands, both startups and legacy brands on everything.

 

Verity Hurd [00:03:04]:

I want to go into straight into sort of like the experience economy because it's been such a hot topic at the moment. Rightly slow and recently you kind of like unpacked why brands are suddenly selling experiences and not just products. On tikt, if you were to describe that shift in one sentence, like how would you, how would you describe it?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:03:25]:

I feel like we're seeing a lack of third spaces. So that comes down to like big cities, nightclubs closing. We're seeing it in the UK and both outside and people are really just looking for a new sense of belonging and I feel like that's where brands, the right ones, are really honing in on that interest, where it's not just about selling a product but a feeling, a oh I wish I was here instead of, oh I wish I had that feeling thing. And I feel like in our current social media era, experiential events actually end up being boosted on social media. So in many ways they work hand in hand. Having an event that people enjoy in person and then share online with their friends just becomes free PR for the brand.

 

Verity Hurd [00:04:04]:

Yeah, exactly. And I suppose like, I mean you've described like pop ups and in person activations as opportunities for brands to be really present rather than just seen. And I think, you know, we are seeing this kind of like huge shift here and I suppose like is this where we're seeing like the brand buzz where like when people are going to these in real life third spaces, is that where the brand buzz is happening more than online now, do you think?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:04:30]:

I really think they work hand in hand. But for the luxury space specifically, I think experience experiential marketing is working really well specifically because if you go on TikTok or any social platform right now, the dupe market is booming. Hashtag dupe. I can't give you the number off by heart, but there are so many people that are duping products, buying dupe products, people that have the disposable income to buy the real Hermes bag or the real Baccarat rouge are now deprioritizing those expensive products but still using that money on experiences. So that's why we're seeing brands like Jacques Mousse opening their beach clubs, other brands giving people a feeling that they can share online and not necessarily, necessarily a handbag that might be worn. It's something that's living on through material.

 

Verity Hurd [00:05:19]:

Yeah, you're so right. I mean there's, I even saw, I wish I could remember what it was now, but there's a report around all about like the dupe, the dupe experience and like the, the whole culture of it now. It's just, it's incredible how quickly these things kind of like just pop up and become like a big cultural thing. But anyway, I was going to ask, in terms of experience, what do you think is the one crucial element that really drives advocacy when it comes experiences?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:05:46]:

I feel like having something that people can easily identify with is one way that you can sense a really great experience. So I think a lot of brands should take note from musicians because even when we think about Charli XCX's brat and how huge that was last year and how the pop ups weren't just enjoyable in person but everywhere on social, it's because it was so easy to identify with. All you had to do was wear a green T shirt and all of a sudden you're part of the movement. Even if you're looking at the cowboy car to tour coverage, all you have to do is wear a cowboy hat and have a really fun outfit and you're part of the movement. So having something that people can see online and instantly identify with the brand, whether it's a colour, whether it's an outfit, whether it's a mood, that is a way that I think brands should be looking. And honestly it's the musicians that are leading the way.

 

Verity Hurd [00:06:33]:

Oh wow. I was not expecting you to say that. But it's. Yeah, I can really get that. I mean, I mean obviously you talk a lot about like luxury brands. I'm going to go off piece a little bit. But for brands that are sort of like on a smaller scale, they don't have these budgets like the luxury brands. How, like what would you say? How can they tap into some of these like cultural moments as well? Like if they were to think about, you know, the musicians like you've just said or you know, if they're looking at like how Loewe is doing stuff like how do you think they can do this on a smaller scale when they don't have like say the budget and the resource to replicate some of these things.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:07:11]:

I think specifically for experiential marketing, brands that don't have a higher budget should think about creating small enjoyable moments in people's daily life. So a lot of the pop ups that I cover are around food again it's such an inexpensive, debatable inexpensive and part of people's day that might necessarily bring them joy. So we're seeing this rise of pop up cafes and the rise of the little treat culture. People are willing to spend that little bit extra on a cookie or a cake or a coffee just to bring a little bit of lightness to what's already quite a dark time that we're in. So engineering small moments of joy, whether that's a little treat that people can have with a product or a service that you're already providing.

 

Verity Hurd [00:07:57]:

It's interesting how food is so big right now and like, I mean I was at a talk the other week, I was at the lead in New York and there was a brand and they were saying that they had a new collection and they, it was around tomatoes or something like that. And then they sort of like they had this creative session around what can they do with this new collection, how do we make this relatable? And they went straight to TikTok and they found a Gen Z chef that was really popular on TikTok and then they hosted like an in real life event that was all, all based around like sort tomatoes and like cooking and all that stuff. And it was like one of the fastest selling collections that they've ever had. And I just think it was really interesting how they went straight to kind of like food and like it's just a great example of how any brand can tap into something so small and quite niche. What do you think is next after food?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:08:52]:

Oh, that is an interesting one. I think if we go back to the root of this whole sensory marketing trend, food food is one of the most profitable niches on socials because it's kind of something that people are always going to have to buy. And I think the reason why we saw brands like Hailey Bieber's Road really capitalise on food was because they were able to associate a need like food that you need to survive with something like a lip gloss, which you don't necessarily need to survive but it's creating that connection within your mind, something that's irresistible. Now obviously we've seen so many other brands not just in Beauty, but in other verticals like fashion, using this same insight. And I do feel that it's being fatigued, but I feel the next thing is going to have that same insight, which is how can we associate something you don't necessarily need, ie, a luxury, with something you do need?

 

Verity Hurd [00:09:45]:

Interesting. Love that take. Okay, I'm going to shift slightly onto something that's probably being said a lot like the follower count is dead and we're kind of in this, I suppose, era of like the slow death of the follow account. And you know, you've argued already that the raw numbers are no longer a signal of influence. And again, when it comes to metrics, particularly on socials, I know a lot of brands kind of get a bit like, what should we be tracking? And they're either tracking too much or not the right thing. You know, we've got in platform metrics, we've got third party metrics throwing data out there. What metric do you think brands should be tracking instead? And how can they uncover what this insight means for them?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:10:30]:

Well, the obvious answer would be engagement. But I think one thing brands aren't doing enough is checking comments to see if those same people are commenting across videos. So whether they have the time to do this or not, I think it's really important to check who is commenting on people. If you're wanting to work with an influencer, do they get the same 20, 30 people that comment on everything? Because that's more of a sign of community than a follower count. And those people that are constantly cheering them on will ideally cheer the brand on or the partnership they do that comes forward. So. Yeah, and also the word community I feel like is overused to such an extent that follow account and community are often confused. And it's the people that constantly show up, whether that's liking, whether that's commenting, that are really part of that community.

 

Verity Hurd [00:11:16]:

Community is the most overused word right now, but probably they're like the most misunderstood as well in terms of like what that means for different brands and how they kind of. Yeah, 100% agree. Okay, so say if you have 10,000 people watch a piece of content but they don't comment, what do you think is the tactical steps that you could take to convert those silent viewers into advocates?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:11:41]:

I'd say you'd have to start with in jokes. So I think that's one of the most underrated marketing tactics tricks is having an in joke for your brand, whether that's halfway through a video, having a specific set of emojis that only People who watch the full thing would then go and comment. That would drive people to feel like they're part of something. And also, if you've ever watched a TikTok video and wondered why people are commenting, a certain joke or a certain reference and felt like, am I missing out on something? Ryanair have made it so easy to attack them and to criticise them and they've used that to their advantage. They accept it, attack. We're going to appreciate our flaws and invite people to take part in tearing us down.

 

Verity Hurd [00:12:23]:

Yeah, I think that's. Yeah, I mean, mine are. I think they're probably the OGs, aren't they, when it comes to that kind of, like, tone of voice and allowing, like, people to kind of come at them in that way. And I think people are trying to be a bit more playful in their tone of voice. And I think also this, like you said in the comment section, I think there's a. More and more brands are trying to show. Show up a bit more in the comments and show their personality. I suppose it's kind of like getting the right balance between, like, how far, how far can brands take it now? Basically, that's why I was just wondering if there was any good examples that you've seen, because I know that, yeah, a lot of brands are trying to be a bit more destructive, playful, particularly in the comments, but also kind of a bit tentative of like, going too far.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:13:08]:

Yeah, definitely. I think with Ryanair's strategy, I obviously quoted them, but I'm actually working on a video where I wonder if the strategy has become tired or if their kind of tone of voice and sassiness has become a bit fatigued as more brands have followed suit. Again, going back to the sensory marketing, it was innovative when Rhodes did it and when Jacques Mousse did it, but when the entire fashion and beauty industry followed suit, then it became less special. So I do think whilst having an in joke or participating in a trend like that matters, you do have to think what's going to be next. And I again think it's going to come back to a need. Like with fashion and food, you need food, you need fashion, but how can we combine two different things together?

 

Verity Hurd [00:13:54]:

Interesting. And you mentioned just before Loewe's tomato hot air balloon stunt, which is obviously very iconic, what do you think made that activation land without feeling really forced?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:14:08]:

I think in Loewe's case, obviously they're doing incredibly well on socials, but what they do, which very other luxury brands do, is admit that they're part of a conversation that they're not in control of. So they had spotted that tweet. Again, amazing community management. They spotted a tweet that somebody had made saying, this tomato feels so Loewe coded. And at that point they could have just got their social media manager to like it and move on and then post whatever was on their content calendar. But they decided to double down on that meme and turn it into a product which was the clutch bag and then a line of candles and then milking the moment beyond the two products, an actual hot air balloon campaign. So it was Loewe, a luxury brand, realising they're part of a conversation and then adding to that. So they found that moment and then milked it for what it was worth.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:14:59]:

And I think that was such an impressive move for a fashion brand in the luxury space, which we don't really see that active conversation with.

 

Verity Hurd [00:15:07]:

Yeah. Do you think there's anything that they could have done to make it even better?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:15:12]:

I would have absolutely loved to have seen the original creator who made the tweet about the Loewe tomato meme be credited or in some way part of the campaign. That would have been such a good idea to have this full circle moment where you're sort of seeing the person that technically made this opportunity for Loewe be a part of the final product and whatever that looked like. Obviously we don't know what happened behind the scenes. Maybe they can track down who it was, but I think that would have been so cool to have that co creation scene.

 

Verity Hurd [00:15:43]:

How do you think brands can anticipate or encourage these cultural inflection points rather than sort of just settling for reactions? And do you think there's a way for brands to truly forecast these cultural impact moments?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:15:58]:

I think there are two points here. It's realising that for most brands, their next viral campaign idea could literally just be sitting in their comments section. So with Loewe, that was the tweet that they had been tagged in. And for others it might be a comment that they've already liked and then just moved forward from. And I also think the reason why the Loewe tomato campaign worked so well is it was this combination of high culture and low. We never really associate tomatoes with something that's luxurious, but in many ways it just works. And I'm seeing this pattern across multiple different brand partnerships where it's like Ben and Jerry's partnering with Nike, Dove partnering with Chamberlain Coffee.

 

Verity Hurd [00:16:36]:

I'm going to just shift the gear slightly again and talk about employee generated content, because I think a lot of people, a lot of brands now are trying to tap into egc and you've called out ownership and fairness in employee generated content campaigns and spotlighted how nine to five influencers can also operate as great brand advocates. So how can brands set up EGC so it's culturally resonant and fair?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:17:05]:

I think there are so many points to this. And employee generated content, whilst obviously really cost efficient for the brand, can have a lot of ethical, moral issues. I think one that's really important is to have a variety of voices. So making sure that if you are featuring employees in your content, that you aren't just using one or two, and then essentially treating them as favourites and making sure that it's very clear the scope of work. Oftentimes if you're an employee, let's say working at a coffee shop and your social media manager wants you to be in content, that's another piece of work on top of your actual job. So having it very clear what the scope of work is, is there a regular time for shooting so that, you know, this is where I'm going to be shooting and these are the boundaries and also setting performance rewards, often inadvertently, these employees become influencers in their own right and may even end up getting agents or just flying solo. So perhaps even having performance rewards for brands that are relying on employees in the same way that they rely on macro influencers and micro influencers who have built their own audience and having very clear boundaries between work behind the camera and in front of the camera.

 

Verity Hurd [00:18:15]:

So brands that want to obviously leverage and utilise employee generated content, like how do they kind of recognise the right people to do it?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:18:24]:

Well, first you start off by asking who is most willing to be on camera. And second of all, I would take a wider look at the industry, whether it's something like finance, and think, who do we not hear from? Who do we hear from in a different context and why would people want to hear this? So when I think about brands in finance, an industry that we traditionally see as boring, who are doing well, I think of Blackstone, they have a series where they highlight their chief of staff, senior executives who do these casual walkthrough interviews. And we rarely see executives in this kind of relatable, down to earth manner. So that's an example of a brand using team members who we rarely hear from in a natural context. Whether it's in a fashion brand, we rarely hear from the makers. Who is it in the team that's got an interesting story or has an interesting Role that not many people know about. Is there an information gap? So, and then obviously you have to ensure that those people are willing and comfortable to be on camera because being perceived on social media is a completely different role that many people are not signing up to. If they're for example a retail staff member, Argos, they might not have necessarily signed up for that.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:19:37]:

And I think it's really important that people understand and respect that.

 

Verity Hurd [00:19:41]:

Yeah, so you're right around like the different. I think for quite a while it was all around founder led content and you know, the founder brand and I think that's still really key and relevant if you can make that happen. But I also think like they're going to target a certain audience, they're going to have a certain kind of conversation and a certain thing and a way of saying it. Whereas like you said, like if you can bring in other people at different levels in different departments, they're going to be able to talk to different audiences. All still relevant for the brand's customer and who they want to reach. But it'll just be these different conversational points that I think, I think that's kind of a bit missing with the whole employee generated content. I'm not sure brands are really kind of thinking that deeply with it just yet. Some probably are, but I think there's still a bit of a way to go in terms of this whole content ecosystem when it comes to employee generated content.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:20:34]:

Yeah. And even founder led content is often quite aspirational because people are watching because they want to see that journey of an entrepreneur making their dream come true. But equally people are interested in employee generated content because we want to hear the advocates, the people that are working on the ground that know the products inside and out and they often have more insight on products than an influencer that's being signed for a one off deal. So it's just having that balance.

 

Verity Hurd [00:21:00]:

I mentioned your TikTok at the start of this interview and it's you, you basically you. You name like the brands that are shaping the industry. You give us great examples of how they're doing it. Which of those brand moves would you recreate for a brand struggling on social today?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:21:17]:

I definitely look at a brand partnership with brands that are in different categories. So thinking about like fashion and food, how can you combine two different things that aren't rarely seen in the same context? I have shared on my socials this idea of the absurdity then, which is when two completely different things combined seem absurd. But in our era of social media scrolling just Capture your attention. Like with Chamberlain Coffee and Dove, you don't necessarily associate those two things together. And Dove and Crumble, we'd never associate a legacy cosmetics and beauty brand with a new and quirky cookie brand. I would try and think about something like that, how you can make the brand show up in an unconventional context.

 

Verity Hurd [00:22:02]:

Yeah, I think you're so right in terms of, like, brands thinking outside the box and not, you know, thinking about. I loved what you said about it, you know, it feeling. What were the words? Uncomfortable, different, but weird, but works. Yeah, weird, but works. That's great. And I think, you know, we've got, you know, so many brands now that are starting to think, like, who would be unconventional for us to work with. And that's when we're really starting to see those great partnerships come together. Totally agree on that.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:22:30]:

When we look at the luxury side, those viral partnerships, like our favourite bus, Auntie Bemi or a Jurgen with Jacques Mousse, that's just something that nobody could have really predicted. So it's about creating shock, surprise and also understanding where the attention is.

 

Verity Hurd [00:22:45]:

If you were to replace one of these resonant brands with a legacy brand, what fresh play would you challenge them to try?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:22:52]:

I would challenge more brands to create their own signature social series. So instead of thinking about each video is just one and done. Okay, that's done. Let's just move on to the next thing. Thinking about how you can keep people hooked and engaged. And coming back for episode one, two and three, we're seeing brands like Argos doing this now. Alexis Batar were one of the kind of early adopters in luxury jewellery that did it. But I think this could apply at least right now for so many other brands.

 

Verity Hurd [00:23:20]:

Yeah, I mean, I'm seeing that everywhere. Even on, like, we. We interviewed YouTube Shotgunist from JD Sports and she was saying about, like, content series. You know, we need to think about social now, like Netflix. Like, we want to binge watch things all the time. So, yeah, definitely agree with that. And I'm trying to think of a content series that we can do. So let us know in the comments what we can do.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:23:43]:

Think about it like a TV show. What would you tune in for?

 

Verity Hurd [00:23:47]:

Exactly. You're obviously both a creator and a strategist and you're watching creator brand dynamics, like, evolve in real time. What do you think is a quiet shift in that relationship that most brands are kind of like sleepwalking past right now?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:24:00]:

I think going back to the point about egc, many brands might see employees with their own platform as a threat. Whereas especially if they have their own platform working in social, they can be quite advantageous for the brand because they can test ideas in real time on their own socials. They have the insight both as a creator and as somebody who works with brands behind the scenes. So this relationship between the employee who has their own profile and can oftentimes attract more views than the brand is evolving. But I don't think brands should be threatened by that. In fact, it can be a real advantage for everyone.

 

Verity Hurd [00:24:35]:

And I want to ask about something that we. I've never talked about this on the podcast before, but the silver economy, maybe because I'm fast approaching that era myself, but obviously it's gaining traction and rightly so. Like, obviously creators, individuals over 50. How do you think these brands should rethink their casting and storytelling to include this generation? And you know, it is historically overlooked. You know, I follow, you know, certain people of this age and they, they're actually really angry that they're misrepresented in this industry. And again, I think that's rightly so. But yeah, how, how do you think brands should be rethinking this when it comes to their storytelling and who they're working with?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:25:17]:

I'm loving seeing the shift of the silver economy and over 50s influencers. I think it's brilliant. But when we look at the stats, it's boomers in our current economy that are feeling the weight of the recession less. So they're the ones with the most disposable income. Thus brands need to be marketing to them. However, I think over 50s influencers have a unique persuasion because they're aspirational, they have wonderful life stories that they can share. They're carefree. We look at an over 50s influencers like London's bus auntie and think she's so carefree.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:25:49]:

I would like to be her when I'm older. So that's a way that brands can tap into aspiration. And I think brands are now having to be more diverse and more careful about how they cast because it's not just about speaking to Gen Z with Gen Z voices, but speaking to Gen Z through other voices, whether that's a boomer who has more authority and more experience and people look to them for different reasons.

 

Verity Hurd [00:26:14]:

And I just want to ask, what's the one thing people get wrong about brand advocacy?

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:26:18]:

It's definitely assuming that advocacy can be tracked at all times. Oftentimes it's like pr, it's behind the scenes. It's somebody recommending a product or a brand in conversation at a dinner. It's not always going to be visible and dark Social is real.

 

Verity Hurd [00:26:35]:

Awesome. This has been great. Thank you so much for chatting with us today. If anyone wanted to find you, where's.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:26:41]:

The best place you can find me on TikTok ooldisjoelle. I'm also on Instagram oldest joelle and on LinkedIn you can find me joellemarlinarson.

 

Verity Hurd [00:26:51]:

Awesome. Thank you so much.

 

Joel Marlinarson [00:26:52]:

Thank you.

 

Paul Archer [00:26:54]:

That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the world's top brand building podcast. To find out more about Building Brand Advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our Brand building cookbook. Then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Episodes. Thanks to Duel for sponsoring. To find out more, go to www.dual.tech. That's D U E L dot T E C H.

 

Paul Archer [00:27:24]:

And on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.