Why The Old Brand-Influencer Playbook Is Dying (& What You Can Do About It)
Season 2 of Building Brand Advocacy is officially in-swing.
This week, Verity’s in New York with Gigi Robinson – a Creator Expert, Social Specialist, Founder, Chronic Illness Advocate, and trusted partner to brands like Liquid IV, obé Fitness, and Stanford University (yes, really).
Affiliate links? No thanks.
Pop-ups over panels? Think again.
A content creator using AI to replace herself? Now we’re listening.
Season 2 of Building Brand Advocacy is officially in-swing.
This week, Verity’s in New York with Gigi Robinson – a Creator Expert, Social Specialist, Founder, Chronic Illness Advocate, and trusted partner to brands like Liquid IV, obé Fitness, and Stanford University (yes, really).
If you want a real-time pulse check on how creators are thinking (and how your brand should be collaborating) you won’t find a realer guide than Gigi.
The partnerships that worked in 2017? They don’t land in 2025. The best creators now expect co-creation, cross-platform collaboration, and a seat at the strategy table.
It’s time to ditch the playbook, and build something better.
Turn this episode on & up to learn how to…
This isn’t about more than content. It’s about connection.
This conversation will challenge you, while giving you the steps to start again, smarter.
Listen. Rethink. Build better partnerships.
Chapters
00:00 – Finding What Authenticity Really Looks Like
07:05 – The Creator Economy Has Only Just Begun
13:04 – Why Affiliate Models Are Missing the Mark
18:56 – How Brand-Creator Relationships Are Evolving
25:10 – AI, Live Shopping & the Future of Content
32:06 – What Brands Still Get Wrong About Advocacy
Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:
Connect with Gigi:
Building Brand Advocacy S2 Ep 001:
Why The Old Brand-Influencer Playbook Is Dying (& What You Can Do About It) ft. Gigi Robinson
Gigi Robinson [00:00:00]:
I've listened to quite a few of these creator panels, and it's like, well, what are your secrets to staying authentic? Or what are your secrets to building a trusted audience or a large audience? I just stayed consistent and I just kept making the same kind of content and it just popped off. And it's like, that's not advice. That's somebody who actually does not have an understanding of it. That was just playing the slot machine over and over again. So I just think, like, when the brands are choosing who they're working with, they have to make sure that it's somebody that actually understands what's going on and they didn't just fall into it.
Paul Archer [00:00:39]:
Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well, don't. I do all the time, and that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come. My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in brand advocacy and word of mouth, having consulted for hundreds of brands on a topic.
Verity Hurd [00:01:13]:
Hey, it's Verity here, your co host of the Building Brand Advocacy podcast.
Paul Archer [00:01:17]:
In this podcast, we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world as they share the exact tactics and strategies used by build the world's greatest brands, dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.
Verity Hurd [00:01:29]:
We've got some incredible guests coming up, sharing insights and tips that can truly shift the marketing landscape. If you want to be the first to hear, make sure you hit that follow button. The more people following the show, the bigger and better we can make it. So if you're loving what you hear, don't forget to follow and spread the word. Thanks again for listening. It really means a lot. I. I hope you enjoy this next episode.
Paul Archer [00:01:52]:
It's time to learn and Building Brand Advocacy.
Verity Hurd [00:01:55]:
Hi and welcome to Building Brand Advocacy. We're in New York today and I am super excited because I'm chatting to Gigi Robinson, someone who I've been following for a very long time. So it feels a bit surreal to be stuck with you today, but I'm so excited.
Gigi Robinson [00:02:09]:
Welcome. I'm so excited to be here. And back at you. I'm like, this is the best thing ever. When I get to meet my LinkedIn friends, the icons all of a sudden become real friends. I'm like, wow. Wow. This is the most magical thing.
Verity Hurd [00:02:22]:
Oh, thank you. I love it. Gigi, do you want to just give us a little bit of an intro before we dig in?
Gigi Robinson [00:02:27]:
I am 26 years old. I'm a born and raised New Yorker. I do, however, now live in New Jersey. Don't tell anybody, but I love it. And I really fell in love with the creator economy, I think maybe in 2017. So it's been a while before it was even called the creator economy. It was just called, like influencer marketing, campus ambassador, programmes, all that stuff. And it was when I was a college student on campus and I one day somebody didn't show up to a photo shoot and it was for hint water, and I had to set up my camera and basically act as the model and then act as the producer, the photographer, everything.
Gigi Robinson [00:03:08]:
And then I posted it and then they were like, oh, we could just pay you double. And I was like, oh, like the model fee and the fee for the production. I was like, oh, this is great. So then I really just ran with it from there. Yeah, I have been a content creator for 5 years, full time, doing it since about 2015 though. Always loved fine art, design, photography. It's what my degrees are in. And I'm just a lover of all things like innovation and marketing.
Gigi Robinson [00:03:40]:
And I think we're just living in such a cool, unique time where young people and really anyone actually has the potential to use any social platform to do anything they want. And that's really what I think excites me about the creator economy.
Verity Hurd [00:03:56]:
No, I'm really looking forward to kind of like, I suppose, demystifying the creator economy today. And obviously you're deeply embedded in the creator economy. You know, like you said, you're a creator yourself, but also you help brands in this space. So right now, if you had to sum up the creator economy in one sentence, what would it be?
Gigi Robinson [00:04:17]:
I think limitless. I'm going to dumb it down to one word. And the reason why is because again, truly we're. We're seeing anybody have the potential to do anything, right? Like a random girl who blew up on social media all of a sudden is getting interviewed now by Khloe Kardashian and like Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy and even something like myself, that actually just happened. I partnered with a Stanford professor who's world renowned for hypnotherapy. And my content, before even talking about marketing, has been about chronic illness and advocating for women's health. And I don't have a medical degree. And when I got the email from them, I was Honestly, my job was like, on the floor.
Gigi Robinson [00:05:05]:
I was like, wait, this is spam. There's no way. And then I'm like looking, it's like, Stanford eevu. And I'm like, oh shit, this is real. And we released a protocol for women and people living with endometriosis and chronic pain. And like, we co produced it together. In what world? If, if you were to have ever told me that I was going to partner with a Stanford doctor who's like, very prestigious and well known, I would have laughed in your face and been like, I'm not credible. But because of the patient advocacy, because I shared it online, because I said yes to doing the speaking engagements for the charities and the nonprofits that help people with the chronic pain, it's truly so limitless.
Gigi Robinson [00:05:52]:
And the potential of what you can do with your platform is limitless. So, yeah, that's. That's my new word of the day.
Verity Hurd [00:06:00]:
And what's one thing about the. What's one thing that you're loving right now about the industry and particularly and where it's headed?
Gigi Robinson [00:06:06]:
I think more conversations between creators and creatorpreneurs like myself and traditional marketers. Right. I think for a long time there's been a barrier of like, brand is brand, creators are creators. And I think now, at least in this post Covid world, because Covid got like a little bit, I think, blurred for everybody. And again, I don't really think it existed before besides celebrity marketing. So I think pulling creators into the conversation has been really unique, really exciting. And then also it just provides an opportunity to kind of like course correct and innovate in the moment. Like, yes, marketers are incredible, truly brilliant, but like, the creators are the ones that take what marketers are saying and bring it to life.
Gigi Robinson [00:06:51]:
And so there needs to be a collaboration between the two. And I think the more conversations I have with people on the brand side about my vision and the way that I want to partner with their brand or speak on a stage, they're like, oh yeah, that's great.
Verity Hurd [00:07:05]:
On the flip side of that question, what is frustrating you the most right now?
Gigi Robinson [00:07:09]:
Some people are gonna hate me for saying this, but like, affiliate marketing, I can't. I think, and I've said this before and it is a hot take, but I do think affiliate marketing, like, has a time and a place, but for the most part, I think it's like an MLM structure for content creators to get taken advantage of. Oftentimes they'll just get free products. And like, don't get me wrong, Like I am enrolled in Amazon influencer programme and all these things, but I'm not that kind of creator. So when you bring affiliate marketing to creators that are focused on awareness and they're not focused on conversion and you're asking them to be conversion creators and vice versa, it's not going to work. Why do you think so many Amazon influencer creators only do that? There's a reason. Like I've never seen these Amazon influencers are like these home creators that are posting that kind of affiliate based content ever do a paid partnership with the brand and there's a reason for that and vice versa. So I'm not saying it's, it's all bad.
Gigi Robinson [00:08:13]:
I think, you know, hybrid models are the future. But I very much so disagree. Unless again the creator consents to it and, or the brand is like, yeah, it's totally hands off. You could post whenever however you want, but I'll get daily, I get requests to, you know, become an ambassador, get free product. Sometimes they even ask you to buy the product and they'll reimburse it after you've posted your first thing and they're like, you get a 10% commission. It's like the product is worth $17. Like I don't, I don't need 10% of that.
Verity Hurd [00:08:50]:
Do you think there's something in a conversation that, that was in the UK last year was around obviously the, the whole micro nano space has blown up because you know, for so many reasons we trust these guys more. You know that they're the ones that help brands. You so get into these niche communities and then the bigger, sort of like I want to say creators with bigger followers, they're then sort of starting to panic that they're not going to get work because they're not looking to them anymore. It's, it's almost, it must be really difficult because if you are sort of in that space and yet you reach a certain number but then brands going to not work with you because of that number. Then there was this conversation that they were going down the affiliate route because they were worried about where their career was going.
Gigi Robinson [00:09:34]:
Well, this is happening, this is very much happening. And I think something else that not enough people talk about or pay attention to is actually the life cycle of an influencer. So the people from 2020, there's a handful that blew up and there's a handful that made that their full time thing and they're still creators, but the vast majority have fallen off on the life cycle and or had to get corporate jobs. Not that that's a bad thing, but because like the brands are interested in things at certain moments. So if you always are saying yes, maybe that's the way that you always stay on the hamster wheel and you always keep getting these partnerships. Now I think there's been a newer kind of group of a lot of these micro creators all of a sudden becoming bigger, hitting larger numbers and all of a sudden they're like, where's the money? And the reason, I believe, is because there's a surplus like of money going into a lot of smaller campaigns. Even if you're doing it for like a thousand dollars and you're doing 10 of them versus if you're a bigger creator, you could do two deals for 5K, but finding those bigger deals is going to be much harder and finding those smaller deals. And I talk to creators every single day who are dealing with this with, you know, huge platforms of over 100k, they're like, I can't get brands to pay me more than $800 these days.
Gigi Robinson [00:10:55]:
And I'm like, why? And then I take a deeper look and I'm like, well, are you just making content or are you actually like promoting a story? Are you actually sharing who you are? Are you actually giving your audience like value based content? And that's really also where I see the future going, just more in this education area. I think there's always going to be a need for nonsensical content and how those creators make money, I have no idea. But the education based content I really do think is going to continue to pop off.
Verity Hurd [00:11:34]:
And so is that what you think brands are going to be looking for.
Gigi Robinson [00:11:36]:
When it comes to create, working with creators, Another example. So I've partnered with a variety, variety of brands, but over the years I've been able to kind of tailor it so that it's revolving around my work from home lifestyle or being a creatorpreneur or like entrepreneur, business owner or living with a chronic illness. So for example, I partnered with Liquid IV and they wanted me to talk about pots, which is a health condition. And that was like the premise for POTS awareness. And they were like, all we want is a health advocate who struggles with this condition or has struggled with it in the past to come, come on and to use our product and talk about it. I mean the, there was a distinct thing with that specific campaign where they were like, we want to educate the audience about what this product is, but also what the condition is. Not just, oh, I'm, you know, day in my life, I'm going to New York City. I need to stay hydrated.
Gigi Robinson [00:12:32]:
Blah Liquid iv. Like nobody cares about that. They want to, they want to feel seen and valued. And I think smart brands are going to continue to use people's individual stories and their ability to tell their story to incorporate a brand into it.
Verity Hurd [00:12:48]:
Okay. And then obviously the creative economy is, it's evolving so fast that you said it's changed so much since when you started out. What do you think is the most outdated strategy that brands are still clinging on to today? That's probably hurting their marketing efforts.
Gigi Robinson [00:13:04]:
I mean, I know Instagram just changed their little squares and they change their squares into rectangles. So I'm still seeing a lot of people who don't have that rectangular update post squares and vice vers. Um, so their, their feeds are looking bad. And like the nine square post for like a marketing campaign, it's just bringing me back to like 2014. But with influencers specifically, I honestly think only doing one platform posts. So some of my best performing ads will always be cross posting them across the board and also boosting them. A lot of brands don't want to boost because they're like, oh well, it's not authentic. And I'm like, if you don't boost, you're not going to reach all the people that you're paying for and you're investing all this money into.
Gigi Robinson [00:13:49]:
So I think not boosting and also not cross posting on other platforms is a big mistake.
Verity Hurd [00:13:55]:
And which brands do you think are adapting best to where the creator economy is headed?
Gigi Robinson [00:14:00]:
You know, we like to give beauty brands a lot of criticism, but I do think that they are constantly working with new creators and doing new things and doing dinners and events and pop ups. Like that's an industry where I think they're constantly reinventing themselves so they have to be scrappy and they have to do a brand dinner for their new lip balm because they have to, you know, but it's not necessarily special. The creators that are attending are just beauty creators that are all basically doing the same thing in a different font, which is fine. Like that's what's working for them. But for me, I'm always like, huh, that looks like a really lovely dinner. I'm always like tickled by it. And then with the pop ups, I mean, I live in New York City, New York City adjacent. And I think the pop up thing is so fun.
Gigi Robinson [00:14:48]:
And to nail a pop up is challenging, I think, you know, to go to a pop up. And for example, Amica always has Fabulous pop ups. They have a amazing photographer or three, like three photographers, a photo booth, hairstylist. And then they have this crazy gifting station for you to get like three or four hundred dollars worth of products, which is like, great. You're like, that's awesome. And then you get home and you unbox it and you're like, wait, what, what was the point of that pop up? Like just to celebrate their dry shampoo. And all of a sudden I have all of these other products. Like, I'm confused.
Gigi Robinson [00:15:24]:
So, you know, whether they're innovating in that space too much or reinventing themselves, I don't know. But they make it an experience. Fun. I think also a lot more experiential marketing. So for example, Microsoft Copilot did some really unique ads around super bo and they partnered with like groups of content creators to help plan using the Microsoft Copilot. And I thought that it was really unique that they did that because they actually took two brand accounts of like two girlfriends and they were like, oh yeah, that's so smart. Like more reach. We'll boost it.
Gigi Robinson [00:16:02]:
We'll, we'll see. And do those people actually use the app? That part I doubt because it just doesn't make sense. I honestly don't really know anybody using Microsoft copilot other than GPT. So I mean, I'm excited to see what OpenAI does. But you know, I have been paying very close attention to what these like tech and software brands have been doing when they work with creators. And I think again, they also were testing that they were seeing. Does it make sense to do this kind of collaboration? Does it make sense to partner with two models or two New York City podcast hosts to market Copilot? Does it? Is their listener base using it or was it an awareness thing? Maybe their audience doesn't know anything about it and maybe they want them to. That's fine.
Gigi Robinson [00:16:50]:
I mean, the amount of people that still don't know what AI is or how to use it is also baffling.
Verity Hurd [00:16:55]:
So there's a couple of things I want to dig in. The first one is around the pop ups and the experience. Like, why do you think this is becoming. Because we're seeing a huge rising that in real life piece in the UK as well. Why do you think it's kind of, I was gonna say popping off, but that sounds a bit.
Gigi Robinson [00:17:10]:
I think the pop ups also, it's just a post Covid thing. But New York City's always been like this, right? Like the amount of times growing up in the city that I would walk around and then all of a sudden see something random like a giant bottle of something or giant flower arc. I'm like, I wanna go check that out. What is that? Like what is going on in Lincoln Square today? That happens a lot. Uh, but I think actually what's more unique and more special are the panels and the in person events as well as the like brand dinners. Those moments I think are so much more impactful than the pop ups because I at least find that you get to meet people and engage with them and like hear what they have to say and then banter and then potentially like get new opportunities to collaborate or to speak and to further what you're doing that much more. And I, I just don't think pop ups really do that. Threads, for example, does a threads book club thing where each month they partner with a new author who's also a content creator usually and they invite a bunch of content creators to come to a like Q and A session.
Gigi Robinson [00:18:18]:
And do I think it's the most innovative event? No, but like it, it does foster that in person communication and then you also get access to, to the Threads team, which as a creator is like the most important thing. So I think it's just evolving and people are still playing with what works and what doesn't work.
Verity Hurd [00:18:39]:
The other part I wanted to dig into, you mentioned sort of AI, so I'm just going off topic a little bit here. But where in terms of AI, like one, I suppose just how are you using it as a creator yourself? But then also how do you think AI in the relationship between creators and brands is going to evolve over the next few years?
Gigi Robinson [00:18:56]:
I think the biggest distinction I want to make is that AI generated image content and video content. Like it's still new to the point. I mean, obviously OpenAI released that new release last week which everybody is talking about and blowing up online, but I really do think that that still is going to take more finessing for it to get to a point where it's like, oh yeah, like you have no idea that I'm actually using an AI clone of myself and my content. However, I will say I have partnered with AI content, kind of like bots or robot version of myself that it's pretty good. Like in the ad, nobody knew that it was actually the AI bot of me. So I'll send you that post for you to take a look. But the vast majority of people had no idea that I even embedded that into my content. And the way that I did it is like I was showing the process and showing how I'm like recording myself.
Gigi Robinson [00:19:56]:
And all of a sudden I like zoom it into the screen and the bots just like talking straight to the camera. And people were commenting and I thought this was so fun. They were like, wait, but how are you actually using it? And I was like, did you check second number 18? And they were like, wait, what? That's AI? And I was like, yeah, so it's not perfect. And it did take quite a bit of finessing to get it to the point where I wanted it to be. But yeah, it's cool. I wouldn't necessarily use them for ads yet. And I think if you are working with an AI partner, then obviously it's like that they want that kind of content from you. And in terms of other things, I personally love GPT Pro.
Gigi Robinson [00:20:41]:
I honestly have pretty much, I think, gotten completely rid of the need for an assistant by using it. I am chatting with the chat. I just call it chat. Like hey, chat all day. And it has tremendously helped my output in terms of content. And if you've been following me for a while, like there's some of my friends, they'll message me, how the fuck are you always on my feed? And I'm like, I swear, like, what I'll do is I'll take a video that I've made and I'll write like a caption or something, or voice note a caption to chat, tell it in the chat that I made for LinkedIn specifically, have it refine so that it's like a LinkedIn post in my voice. And then I'll also have it make a long form caption for a photo version of that post. Sometimes I'll also even do something where I'll grab an article that relates to the content and I'll put that in with an even longer form post.
Gigi Robinson [00:21:39]:
And then from there I'll also cross post across all my other platforms. So all of a sudden one video turned into like three posts. And then I'll take threads and I'll thread different pieces of it. And it's not that I couldn't do it without the AI, it's just that my efficiency and ability to pump out more faster is so much like clearer than it ever was. Like, I don't have to sit down at a doc and like write my script out. I can just voice note the script to chat and be like, can you refine this and make it. I tell it to make it like a grabbier hook or like add some more Gen Z language in here and the way that I've trained the bot, it really helps. So for me, I'm like, all for it.
Gigi Robinson [00:22:25]:
And I don't really think it matters when working with brands unless they're like, we want it to be original, but even so it's like, okay, well whatever's original, you're going to critique and change anyway. Most likely, like, why does it matter how it was made?
Verity Hurd [00:22:38]:
Do you think brands will start getting more demanding knowing that we're probably used as a creator? Let's say you, for example, you're using AI, they know that you can output more with AI. Do you think they're going to start demanding more?
Gigi Robinson [00:22:51]:
No, because that's not fair. That's not fair. Just let's say Dyson makes a new hair dryer that allows you to do your blowout in five minutes instead of 10 minutes. You're not going to demand that the hairdresser does three more clients in the same amount of time. I mean, maybe they would, but I, I don't think so. Like, there's still a certain amount of human labour and effort that does go into curating it that I think the brands should be respectful of. And to be honest, like, there's some brands that I've worked with that are very needy and like, they want the content ASAP and they want five adjustments to it. And it's like, no, you need to put your foot down as a content creator to have also the, to know the etiquette of how to speak with brands.
Gigi Robinson [00:23:37]:
So for me, with brands, when they try to get too pushy, I'm like, hey, I know we just signed the contract. Or like, I just got my product from you for this ad. They're like, can you get the content test tomorrow? And I'm like, like, no. Like I, I usually take two weeks to make content for brands and I'm happy to do my best to get it done in one week or by the end of the week. But there's just no amount of a brand demanding my time that can alter my schedule. I mean, it's like, it's really obnoxious. In my opinion, if brands do demand more, unless they demand it upfront. So if they're asking for more upfront, that's fine, pay me more.
Verity Hurd [00:24:20]:
I want to go back to the co creation piece because, you know, it's kind of a bit of a trend word this year. And as the creator economy sort of matures, how do you think brands and creators can co develop products authentically that sort of like really help resonate in these niche communities. Like I mentioned before, I guess it.
Gigi Robinson [00:24:40]:
Depends on the product. So, like, are you speaking about, like, a beauty brand or, like a tech brand or more like ads? Well, I mean, I think, you know, we have an example of a big makeup influencer, Michaela Nuguera, who just did her POV beauty launch. And I've been following a lot of these podcasts and these commentaries about it. Everybody's saying, why did she do skincare? She's a makeup creator, but she's always talking about skin prep, so it makes makes sense that she did that. Now, I don't know who and what brand she's partnered with in order to make this thing, but in the past she's partnered with, like, Morphe and Elf and all these other brands. So, I mean, I guess it makes sense. But also to me, what's shocking is that, like, you really have to have a big audience to take the gamble and the risk that comes with developing a product in a certain amount. So I know, like, also, Aspenovar did a tarte collaboration years ago.
Gigi Robinson [00:25:43]:
I think they relaunched it when she went on the trip. The tripping with Tarte that happened earlier this year, and I'm pretty sure it sold out. So why did it sell out? Well, she does have millions of followers. She does have an audience that's used to buying from her. But if you were to go to, you know, a random New York City influencer that maybe, yes, has a million followers, but doesn't really, like, have the grounds to stand on when it comes to a collaboration that makes sense, or, like, they don't have a converting audience in a specific field, like, it's just not gonna work. So I don't. I don't really know what the future is other than I also think the fact that a lot of creators don't actually have as much purchasing power as we think, and their attention span is shorter. So I think the convergence of that is actually getting farther and farther apart.
Gigi Robinson [00:26:36]:
Like, it's getting farther and farther apart instead of closer together. And I think peak, you know, influencer era, like YouTube, all of that, and selling to your audience through YouTube is way harder than it ever was.
Verity Hurd [00:26:50]:
Well, I want to kind of dig into sort of the platform piece a little bit. And do we talk about TikTok is like.
Gigi Robinson [00:26:57]:
I mean, we can. I don't know when this is coming out, but TikTok may or may not be banned by that. Who knows?
Verity Hurd [00:27:05]:
You? Or do you think what's your prediction.
Gigi Robinson [00:27:07]:
Is that it's going to stay. I just, I don't think that there's really, I mean, I personally don't, I don't know, I don't work for any of these platforms, so I have no idea. But I just think that it affects too many people to actually go away and it's pretty good for our economy. So I think it's gonna stay if it goes meta. Like, if it goes meta is just gonna be the, the platform. That's what I think. I. And I mean, yes, LinkedIn, but like LinkedIn will never have a feed the way that Instagram has a feed.
Gigi Robinson [00:27:46]:
I think we'll see with the launch of Reels, which I do think potentially is strategically coming out very soon, which could make sense with all the TikTok drama. Yeah, convenient. And then, you know, platforms like Snapchat and Pinterest, there's a lot of users on both. But again, like I'm never going to those platforms to scroll, I'm just not. But I am posting a lot on Snapchat, I am on Pinterest a good amount. But I really am using LinkedIn and Instagram more than anything and like threads.
Verity Hurd [00:28:22]:
So you don't think there's any other platforms, particularly from a sort of brand creator perspective that will be any. These new and emerging ones?
Gigi Robinson [00:28:30]:
Yeah, I mean, I think there are these platforms and people will try to go on to them. But the truth is it's like Triller is a music platform for mostly hip hop and R B artists. And so there's no original sounds and there's no trendy pop music that you can access on Instagram. And TikTok with Clapper, you know, it's an interesting platform. I've been on it since 2020 and I only have like, I think a thousand followers or something, but. But it, it just doesn't hit the same. And maybe it's just the UX of it or it's just that TikTok is TikTok. But I find myself grabbing Instagram threads and LinkedIn the most.
Verity Hurd [00:29:17]:
I just want to touch it because obviously, like I think the TikTok ban, whatever happens is obviously it sparked up a lot of uncertainty and I suppose like Substack for example, has become or is becoming like a bit of an emerge. I don't know whether it's an emerging platform or not, but I'm seeing, I'm also seeing brands moving over there and sort of using that as like a behind the scenes and finding a new way to like build engagement with their community. What do you think Is, you know, is that, is that a smart move to make kind of going off onto these other. I don't know what, what should we be doing to protect ourselves?
Gigi Robinson [00:29:54]:
So I think the newsletter trend is obviously really interesting because every single creator during the TikTok ban frenzy and I was talking a lot about this, was going to substack, substack releases their creator fund all of a sudden and it's like not every content creator, like everyone who launched their substack. Oh, where are their newsletters? Have they made a newsletter in the past three months? I don't think so. Why is that? Most content creators are not long form writers. Most content creators are not building an engaged community that actually wants to read. They just want to look, look at their videos. And if it involves like a recipe or you know, if they're basically like sharing certain things about like their dating life. Like I have seen some creators that have had newsletters for years succeed with that. But what doesn't work is a content creator who you know, posts their daily life and then all of a sudden is like for certain creators do who are lifestyle creators that all of a sudden have launched a sub stack.
Gigi Robinson [00:30:54]:
Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, maybe they're testing it out. But for brands to really start investing, at least from what I've been told by my friends in the industry that have newsletter sponsors and Successful newsletters are B2B newsletters that are marketing mostly to creators or other specific business demographics or needs. And you need on average about 5k to even get a brand's attention to invest in a partnership or sponsorship mention. And in terms of brands, I mean I think newsletter marketing has been around for a long time. How are they staying trendy with it? Are they sharing their and highlighting their creator partners? I mean that could be really cool. I've been featured in Flamingo, the Razor Co. And OBI Fitness, which is a women's focused health app, in both of their newsletters. And I thought it was like a really cool thing.
Gigi Robinson [00:31:47]:
It kind of. I just marked it as a press mention for me, which is always another great thing to have in my back pocket. But I don't think brands are being very innovative in that field. I think they're very boring. Oh, you know, April Fools, haha, new launch, it's like okay, delete.
Verity Hurd [00:32:06]:
I've been tricked by a few April Fools this morning. What do you think is going, going off that then? What do you think is one partnership models of brands haven't explored enough that could be a real game Changer.
Gigi Robinson [00:32:19]:
The one thing you have to be careful of is most creators are not trained for media training when they're answering questions. For example, I've listened to quite a few of these creator panels and it's like, well, what are your secrets to staying authentic? Or what are your secrets to, you know, building a trusted audience or a large audience? It's like, well, I just stayed consistent and I just kept making the same kind of content and it just popped off and it's like, that's not advice, that's somebody who actually does not have an understanding of it, that was just playing the slot machine over and over again. So I just think, like, when the brands are choosing who they're working with, they have to make sure that it's somebody that actually understands what's going on and they didn't just fall into it. And, and I, I don't, I don't think that it's right or wrong, whatever way they go. But I think more brands are potentially going to start doing, like, podcasts. Imagine, you know, Bloomingdale's, right? They have all of these different fashion, beauty, jewellery, lifestyle brands all of a sudden. Like, what if they're able to do something like Macy's, where they have creator hosts come in, but instead of their Macy's live show or Bloomingdale's live show, they're doing a podcast version and they're asking creators to come in and do a live shopping thing on a podcast and talk about how they're selling to their audience or what their favourite things are for the kitchen. If it's a food creator, I mean, I think the possibility is limitless.
Gigi Robinson [00:33:42]:
And also I think that they'll pair these in person functions and even hosting dinners with brands. Like, if Lineage were to do a dinner for their new lip balm, they might partner with the top New York City beauty creator for that and then they'll invite their circle or some of the people that the brands want to invite. And I just think that that's going to be happening more and more and it's also going to be something that creators can charge for if, if they have a proven track record with it. Usually when you're asked to speak or you're asked to host, it's almost always like a bonus to you, bonus exposure. And I really hope that's another thing I'm fed up with. But I really hope that the brands kind of shift that perspective and they're like, oh, if you do this panel and also post about it, you know, we'll do the whole thing for 10k instead of like just the post for 5k as an example.
Verity Hurd [00:34:40]:
Yeah, that's super interesting. I love that kind of concept of these big brands bringing in sort of like a long form podcast version. You mentioned live shopping. Yeah, I mean obviously we've just talked about, we don't know what's gonna, what TikTok will be when this comes out. But I suppose just getting your opinions on that whole the live commerce space, because that is, it scares me but also really excites me all at the same time.
Gigi Robinson [00:35:11]:
I think somebody on LinkedIn the other day wrote like lately TikTok shops looking a lot like QVC. And I'm like, yes. And like we're seeing what's happening in the Asia market right now with live shopping. I mean the numbers are shocking.
Verity Hurd [00:35:27]:
And when you see it all lined up. Yeah, like this sort of factory process, it's. Yeah.
Gigi Robinson [00:35:33]:
And I'm not saying that that's how everybody's doing it, but like how cool would it be if we had a show here? You and I could talk about the tech gear, we could talk about our outfits, we could talk about the water we're drinking. Like there's so many opportunities. We could talk about all these vases and everything and really make it unique and socially sellable. Which actually I think Amazon Live does some really unique, fun programming. The only thing is I am rarely seeing the creators repurpose and repost that content onto their other socials or their YouTubes. But what I would think would be smart is to cross platform stream that to YouTube to have it shoppable so that you could shop the affiliate links in the comments of the Amazon Live video streamed to YouTube. But again I don't have one of those agreements so I don't even know what that looks like. Maybe there's precautions and rules about it.
Gigi Robinson [00:36:24]:
I'll often see creators promoting their episode or like promoting people to tune in. But how many people actually are tuning in? I mean that I don't know. Obviously we do know shopping on Amazon is, there's a lot of shoppers on Amazon. So you know, the, the potential again, I think it's one of these things where we just have to play it by ear. I recently went to TikTok for a live, basically a tick tock live agency conversation and they were saying that some creators are moving like upwards of $10 million a day. Like that's a lot, that's a lot of money that they're moving not through live shopping, but actually through live gifting. Like, like if you were to, if I was on Live and you were to gift me because you like me and you're my fan, like, the numbers are crazy. So I do think it could.
Verity Hurd [00:37:18]:
Yeah, sorry. So that number is the, just the gifting number or is that combined?
Gigi Robinson [00:37:22]:
Yeah.
Verity Hurd [00:37:23]:
Oh my gosh.
Gigi Robinson [00:37:23]:
We might have to go back and look at the numbers. But at least when I was there, I just remember writing a post about that because I was shocked at that number. But, you know, I, I, again, it's kind of unknown. And the other thing I'll mention, same thing with the newsletter. Not every creator is meant to be a video creator. Not every creator is meant to be a writer. Not every creator is good at long form interviews. So I think, making sure, at least from the brand side that you're being very intentional and as a creator, obviously try different things, but be prepared to fall on your face.
Gigi Robinson [00:37:58]:
And if a newsletter just doesn't work, be prepared to not do a YouTube channel. If you really hate sitting down and talking for 15 to 45 minutes. Like, be prepared for that. And also if you're a creator on LinkedIn and you do a lot of writing and all of a sudden everybody's telling you, well, videos the new way. And you hate filming videos, and in fact videos don't do as well for you and your audience. Don't do it. Like, I think there's a huge misconception with the whole TikTok thing that happened in January where everyone's like, diversify, do everything. And obviously coming from me, like, I am on every platform and I am posting.
Gigi Robinson [00:38:40]:
But again, I'm a full time content creator, so it's my job to be on all of these platforms all the time. But like, do I have a huge Pinterest audience? No. Do I have a huge substack audience or newsletter audience? I mean, like, I have like 4 1/2 K, which is like great, but it's not substantial enough for me. Like, according to me, like, it's just trying all these things out. Like, I've tried doing podcasting before. I've had to take a step back. Now I'm like, okay, do I want to focus on my YouTube? I can definitely talk for a long time, but like, how do I stay focused and not tangent? It's a, it's a real skill. And so I honestly do think that it's just about leaning into what you're good at.
Verity Hurd [00:39:21]:
And I have to ask this question, obviously on the Building Brand Advocacy podcast, what do you think brands get wrong when it comes to Building Brand Advocacy.
Gigi Robinson [00:39:30]:
Not necessarily what they get wrong, but what they could improve on is really marketing for their customer and not necessarily marketing to the creator that they're sending the product to. But, like, why should I be buying your product? Why will this fit in with my lifestyle? And. And I really do think that that's area of improvement. Because again, as we're working on both awareness and affiliate conversion campaigns, it's like, who has to be at the centre of that? Well, if you want awareness and you want somebody to think of your brand first, you have to work with awareness creators to tell you that, yes, drinking reverse osmosis water through this specific water filter or in this glass water bottle is going to be your best possible choice because of blah, blah, blah, health benefits. And then for affiliate, they're going to say, by the way, there's a sale here. By the way, just buy this thing because there's a sale and you need to buy the sale. So it's different. And I think working with creators again in tandem is the number one thing that they could improve on.
Verity Hurd [00:40:35]:
Yeah. Awesome. Gigi, this has been incredible. I finally get to dig into your brain.
Gigi Robinson [00:40:41]:
Please, let's do this for five more hours.
Verity Hurd [00:40:45]:
I know that's gone so quick, but if anybody wanted to contact you, where can they find you?
Gigi Robinson [00:40:50]:
You can Google me, LinkedIn, Instagram, email. It's pretty accessible. I'm out there. You can find me. I check my DMS often.
Verity Hurd [00:41:00]:
Awesome. Thank you so much.
Gigi Robinson [00:41:01]:
You're welcome.
Paul Archer [00:41:03]:
That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the World's top brand building podcast. To find out more about Building Brand Advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our brand building cookbook. Then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Thanks to Duel for sponsoring. To find out more, go to www.duel.tech. that's D U E L dot T E C H. And on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.
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