This is about more than Gen Z.

It’s about the way they’ve reshaped marketing for everyone.

This week, Paul chats with Lara Stallbaum (CEO & Founder @ Twirl) and Rosie Donoghue (Digital Marketing Manager @ Umberto Giannini) LIVE from London’s Brand Advocacy Summit to unpack:

✨ How to speak Gen Z’s language without losing your brand.
✨ Why performance marketing isn’t enough anymore.
✨ The surprising way Gen Z are reshaping product and brand loyalty.

And of course, the big one…

How to build Advocacy with Gen Z consumers who’ll actually stick around.

 

You’ll learn:

 

• What Umberto Giannini Found – Taking their products straight to students’ Freshers roadshows became unexpected research labs & Advocacy engines.
  
  
• Why Raw, Real Content (yes, even with pimple patches) Wins – Because when the vibe is honest, the message lands.
  
  
• Why Your Top Fans Might Already Be Creators – They’re on your CRM, they’re opening your emails, and they’re ready to create. You just haven’t activated them yet.
  
  
• When It’s Time To Rethink Brand Guidelines – Control doesn’t have to mean creative restriction, if you curate and brief smarter.
  
  

Gen Z don’t just want something different. They want something real.

 

This episode’s in kind partnership with Twirl; delivering scroll-stopping UGC for ads, sites, and socials, powered by a top-tier network of creators who know how to make brands shine.

Learn more about them here: https://www.usetwirl.com/ 

Download their ‘Gen Z UGC Playbook’ here: https://www.usetwirl.com/guides/the-gen-z-ugc-playbook 

 

Chapters 

00:00 - Why Gen Z Marketing Is Everyone’s Marketing Now 

04:00 - From Freshers Pop-ups to UGC Conversions 

07:20 - Brand Loyalty vs. Product Loyalty 

09:00 - How Connection Turns Customers Into Advocates 

15:10 - Brand Guidelines vs. Raw Authenticity 

20:00 - Building A Full Funnel UGC Strategy 

26:30 - Why Your Customers Might Already Be Your Best Creators

 

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

 

Connect with Lara & Rosie:

On Lara’s LinkedIn

On Rosie’s LinkedIn

 

Paul (00:01.134)

Welcome. So Gen Z doesn't buy into traditional marketing. As we know that, they buy into brands, they align with the value, that align with their values, that culture their identity. And so today we're going to be digging into what it actually takes to build that kind of connection and how brands can earn real advocacy in 2025 and beyond from there. So welcome guys. Before we kick it off, please tell us who you are, what you do, and a little bit about your organization and your role.

 

Yeah, so my name is Lara. I'm CEO and founder of Twirl. We are, I would say, UK's leading UGC platform. We've been around for three years now and we help consumer companies, not only brands, I would say 30 % of our clients don't have a physical product with UGC. So we have around 4,000 creators on our platform. My background is actually in D2C. So I was running a fashion e-commerce platform in Germany before.

 

And I feel like Twirl started when I was using UGC in 2018, 2019 when UGC, the term didn't even exist. I would say you would call it content creators. So yeah, this is how the whole idea around Twirl started. But yeah, give it over to Rosy.

 

Rosie. I'm the digital marketing manager for Umberto Gnini, which is a haircare brand. And we used Twirl religiously, which I'm sure we'll dig into. we advertise on kind of meta, TikTok mainly, Google. And we've really found that UGC is helping us massively to get those conversions.

 

And so what kind of percentage of your customers are Gen Z?

 

Rosie (01:42.272)

It's growing a lot. I would say probably about 30 to 40 % now. We did kind of a big push on Gen Z last year. We did like a student road show. So we went around to all the different universities on Freshers Week and did pop-ups. And it was just so interesting to see what people were talking about, what kind of the trends were, what the questions, the different questions Gen Z asked as opposed to kind of a millennial. So yeah, it's...

 

Definitely growing. Mostly like how to take good content, like get good photos with the products or how to use the products. Whereas I feel like millennials are more about kind of the care, like what the ingredients, et cetera. Whereas I feel like Gen Z wanted to do more of the how-tos and kind of what we stood for. So we're vegan, cruelty free. And I think that's really what they were very interested in.

 

The different questions.

 

Paul (02:39.468)

These were customers or they were creators or both?

 

So this is at the road show. kind of, guess, new to brand. yeah, just awareness driving.

 

And their main question was about how they could create content off the back. Jen Z tells us something about the generation in its entirety there, which is phenomenal. That's kind of abstract from where we are. So why do you think that we're talking so much about Jen Z right now? Like, why is this such an important part of the dialogue? So much of what we talk about in terms of content creation and social seems to be very much focused on that as a demographic. What makes them so different when it comes to choosing brands?

 

Basically, yeah.

 

Lara (03:18.282)

reason why it's becoming so important is that Gen Z shapes not only their own target group, it's there's this ripple effect on all other target audiences. So what I consume is probably what I would call Gen Z content, but maybe it's also my content that I consume is just that Gen Z has shaped the way how we consume content, what kind of content we produce. So I think this is the reason why we talk Gen Z is so important, but it's more like

 

what Gen Z introduced to marketing and how we now consume it has shaped all other age groups almost. Which is I think why UGC, I would say that Gen Z has almost introduced UGC as a proper marketing channel to everyone's brands. And you would say like, UGC is for Gen Z only, but it's not anymore. So I think this is why when you look at Gen Z, what they consume, what they like, it applies to

 

every other target audience is just that Gen Z communicates the most. And probably that's why you can learn so much from this specific target audience, because at the end of the day, are the ones then communicating what they like and what they want in a brand. And then they would take it and apply it to every other target group in their brand.

 

think they've also got longevity because obviously at the age that they are, once they, and it's kind of been shown that once they buy into a brand that you've got them now, they're kind of like a lifelong advocate for your brand. So I think it's so important because then they'll be growing up and they'll be, you know, as they age, they'll be keeping coming back to the brands that they love. So I think it's really important to get them when they're really buying into your brand and then you carry them with you.

 

What do you think that the thresholds are for Gen Z just so we can be on the same page?

 

Lara (05:11.335)

I don't know, wonder who's Gen Z in this audience actually.

 

I'd say like we're millennials. Yeah, I would say 18 to 24.

 

24, do you think? Do we agree with that a bit later than that? 28, you think? Yeah, 28. Yeah, yeah, it was very fascinating because I'm at the very top end of what a millennial is. I think for me, the millennial generation is someone who's grown up on the internet. So you kind of your brain formed in your early teens online and you had this kind of internet mindset. There's all these people who are in their early 40s. They're like, yeah, well, I'm a millennial. I'm a digital native. It's like, you're not really.

 

You started logging into MSN when you were 15. It's like, no, we were there. We were there much earlier than that. And I think Gen Z for me is this, it's the same, but only at social. So it's like you went through teenagehood, you went through secondary or high school with the social media lens. And I think that the way that someone's brain evolves to know that they're hyper-connected to...

 

everyone and everything, they can be seen. I think it just changes everything. The fact that you're saying that the questions they're asking is about how they can create. It's like their life is on show in a way that I think that millennials and Gen X and boomers and all those things just cannot get. So I think I'm like, I'm fascinated by it as a trend. So when you're looking at them, do you actually think, do you talk there actually, Rosie, about how the

 

Paul (06:37.868)

They stick with a brand for a long time. This is them buying into it. However, one of the things that I'm hearing back is that actually brand loyalty in Gen Z is less, but the product loyalty is super high. And so have you seen any of this? I'd love to get to the bottom of this.

 

To be honest, no, I think we're kind of so we're earlier on in our marketing to them. So I'm not sure I could fully give you a truthful answer to that. I do think from people I've spoken to and things, I think that they're loyal to a brand with their values, even if they don't like the product, get unnecessarily with the products. Say we're talking about beauty or fashion. If it's not necessarily the products for them, they can still like would advocate for a brand.

 

but no, sorry, I don't have any examples of that for you.

 

I would rather say that Gen Z is loyal to a brand rather than a product. I think we were talking about pop-ups. I think this is how you create those connections to Gen Z. And maybe they have favorites in your collection, what they prefer the most. But I think most of all, it's probably crucial to have this brand loyalty as opposed to product loyalty. Because maybe it takes one product to convince your target audience that this is going to solve your problem in your daily life.

 

They will like the product and then fall in love with your brand and then they would pick maybe new products. So could you going to launch this? Well, maybe you don't like this product, but then next time, but you would just check out this brand every time when they launch something and you stick with this brand. Hopefully long time, no matter the product. That's what I would say.

 

Paul (08:14.83)

what do you think it is that makes a brand really stick out rather than just the product? So they fall in love with the product, but then they need to fall in love with the brand. What is it that makes Gen Z fall in love with a brand?

 

Yeah, maybe I can start.

 

I think there's quite a few things. I think it's a two-way conversation. I think you have to really engage, sorry, engage with them. And I think that you have to just be super authentic in who you are and be consistent with that authenticity. So say you're not just hopping on every single trend because you think it's what the Gen Z would like. It has to really align with your values and your company to get on the trend.

 

And yeah, and the sense of community, really just making sure, I think the brand Refi, I think they do this amazingly. They have an amazing community. They go out, they do these community walks, they just invite kind of their consumers. And I think it really stands out.

 

So I think many brands, when they advertise a product, you almost advertise your brand instead and then make the product part of your advertising almost on the side. the ideal goal is that Gen Z says, this is so me. And you don't probably get this if you just advertise a single product, like, this is doing this and that. But you have someone like a POV, your day in the life and an integrator's person because they say it's going to solve my problem.

 

Lara (09:42.574)

And then everyone will probably comment, they will tag other people, for example, or share this with friends like, hey, this is so you, but not because someone's advertising a product, but a story. And I think this is what sticks with Gen Z in particular, like telling those stories. And then maybe they stick with a brand long-term because the story is just consistent across all channels. And then you just tweak, like you just drop your product every now and then.

 

Yeah, keep it treated. You sort of stick by your why. mean, it's similar to the principles that talk about areas, that kind of that core purpose that's there and building community just seems to be ubiquitous. Do you think it's possible to appeal to a Gen Z brand without those, without a clear purpose, without building community and using some of the old school techniques of kind of top down command and control brand building?

 

To be honest, no, I think because there's also so many new brands popping up all the time at the moment, I think you really have to have your clear goals and purposes and kind of shift from that old top down marketing because it just, we don't see conversions from that anymore at all. Even when it's not through Gen Z, we...

 

The most conversions we see is through UGC and through kind of talking to people and community. We don't see it from that top down marketing anymore.

 

The problem with that probably is that it might work in the short run, but then in the long run, it will probably come back to you because you haven't built this community. That's probably one of the biggest mistakes that I had with my previous company that I think you always have goals. Also as a marketer, you always need to push for these specific goals. Especially if you work in paid advertisement, you just have less customer acquisition costs and you need to have X goal by the end of the month. And it does work, but...

 

Lara (11:28.898)

You always need to set aside time for all things community building, is probably you need to bring a lot of patience with that and then hope, not hoping, but you need to be, you need to trust that this is going to help you in the long run. Because what we did is we pushed paid advertisement to the absolute minimum and didn't set aside anything towards community building. I think it's related to Gen Z, but I actually, every target audience is.

 

They want to see community, they want to stick to the spread. And if you just push advertisement, it will just, yeah, fail in maybe not in the next three months, but maybe in a year and a half.

 

Yeah, there aren't any free lunches to be had in sort of performance marketing anymore. Everyone is to a standard. It used to be kind of in the teens that you could have a DTC brand and you could sell mattresses and you'd do very well at it because you had the margin. could sort of triage against that and then arbitrage even. But actually now you've got everyone is advertising in the same field and there's completely level, which means that it's just not a point of differentiation. So it's very hard to build a business on performance today.

 

and it's so expensive.

 

Yeah. way. Ben Zuckerberg doesn't need any more money? No. Like, how do you... how, like, I think this kind of authenticity piece that's showing up, it just seems to be baked into the psyche of Gen Z. Like, first, would you have any kind of, why do you think that's the case? Why is this such an important thing? And secondly, how can brands show up and play to that?

 

Lara (13:00.974)

I was thinking the same, why? So we always say that Gen Z wants this authenticity and I also wondered why, I mean, we're two millennia sitting in the panel, but I think COVID played a big role because that was the time when you probably, Gen Z, they were students and then all of a sudden you're just pulled out of your daily life almost and then you study alone.

 

You work alone, you grind every day, you have no connection whatsoever whilst I feel like millennials might have been better in that time than Gen Z was. I don't know why. I think it was because it was so early on in that maybe the career steps or how they, this excitement about life in the early twenties, how they want to build or like 18, 19, you want to build your life and suddenly you're cut off from society, which is why they might have questioned more what they value depending on career or in their life or friends even.

 

which is why authenticity maybe played a bigger role than it is for millennials. And I feel like also millennials or Gen X grew up with these polished ads that I'm even used to, whilst Gen Z would probably just grab a phone, create a video, no makeup, just a pimple patch, while I would put on three layers of makeup before I would even present myself on the internet. I think this is what COVID probably changed, because what does it even matter? I'm just going online and see what

 

what happens and the thing is this worked across all other target audiences and I think this is why now marketers try to apply what worked on all other target audiences and try to shape it in a way that feels authentic because it worked and now there's so much content online that's so authentic that it's now accepted to be raw and vulnerable and no makeup on and

 

I don't know, five years ago, like, what's this now? Like new makeup on. But now it's fine because there's so much content that just looks like it's a new, as a gen X, millennial, like, okay, whatever. And I'm also trying without makeup today.

 

Paul (15:06.478)

Me too.

 

I also think that the market is so saturated, especially in beauty. There's new brands, new products popping up everywhere all the time. And it's like, who do you trust? everyone's doing the same thing, which one should I go for? So I think the one that feels the most real and the most valuable, I think, is why kind of the authenticity plays like a role as well.

 

I'm always really interested in how a brand can find the right balance because I think that there seems to be real kind of collision between an old school, you know, the VP of brand, they're not a Gen Z. We're pretty sure of that. You know, and there's this kind of old school mindset, this is our brand aesthetic, we can't go against that. And then there's this body of evidence that's pretty, pretty massive, that that's just not what people want anymore. And it's not what works. I know that we've done like

 

always have an A-B test and say, right, use some of this really ropey content that has not been allowed in by your brand team and put it into your media buy. And it always outperforms everything that they've spent millions shipping models to beaches, all those kind of things for it. But like, it's still the brand team's there because they're building a brand. They're building an aesthetic. They are core values that they do. These things always seem to be a complete loggerhead. So like, do you have any thoughts or advice for how brands can

 

figure out where that balance needs to be. Is it all you just see, sold the brand guidelines, let's throw them away, let's entirely decentralize our brand storytelling to our community, or actually is there still a place for that?

 

Rosie (16:43.63)

I think my marketing manager would kill me if I threw the brand guidelines off. But I think it's about working together, how you can make the UGC also feel like your brand, and picking the right creators, and spending time really building relationships with the creators so that they already have your brand tone of voice. even if it's not polished, the

 

the stuff that they're saying is stuff you would say. So it just, it all kind of fits together. I don't necessarily think that the aesthetic always needs to be the same. It just needs to, I think it's the messaging really that needs to resonate.

 

So you curate the creator of the concept and do you think you should be giving them guidelines as well in terms of what content they create or entirely allow them to create in the way that they want?

 

No, I think guidelines. But I think loose guidelines. know, I work with Twirl all the time and it's really good. You can either say that you want this is scripted and like, some stuff say you're doing like a promotion, you need it X, Y, and Z. But then, or you can say it's kind of loose guidelines, like feel free to, you know, add lib or whatever.

 

So I think, it's important to have, but it's also, you want it to feel authentic. So if it's a script, it doesn't necessarily feel that authentic. So you want to give kind of loose guidelines on how to, maybe how to use the product, but the way you say describe how it's, I would write like describe how it smells in my guidelines so that they have kind of the freedom to, you know, say how it smells themselves, not just from me.

 

Paul (18:17.334)

great screenshot of one of the Kardashian clans doing an Instagram post that includes the guidelines of when to do the post, which I think is a classic. Do you agree with this? Do think that this kind of is there a happy medium or if it was given to you?

 

It's very scary process actually. I think I also had a few conversations this morning and I absolutely feel that. Should you just throw out your brand guidelines and like, whatever, it looks unpolished, it's UGC. But I think there's a middle ground and I think, yeah, Rosie does it well with the team. It's spent rather more time finding the right creator that does understand the brand. The ideal case is, for example, someone

 

wants to work with you on UGC that already has the product. I'm like, hey, I'm using this for three years.

 

straight. So many people when they apply to my things on 12, they already say, love, already love your products. I use X, Y and Z. I'd be a great advocate for your brand. it's about finding those people.

 

Yeah, as long as you give them a story to tell and then your brand guidelines, tone of voice. you spend a lot of time finding the right creators for long term, because they will understand your brand better than maybe you do, because they will pick it up in a different way. And maybe you wouldn't have done it in the way the creator would do the script. But just a rough guideline. What is it? What are you looking for? Give them a story to tell, give them a problem to solve and they will interpret it in a way that fits.

 

Lara (19:40.994)

what they think fits the audience. I think that's the best thing you can do, especially if you want to Gen Z. The funny thing is my sister, she's a creative strategist and she works with a brand that only targets a younger audience. And she had this very good script that performed in paid ads and she would throw it in chat and said,

 

make it sound more Gen Z. And it's just a horrible outcome like this. No way you would ever use this kind of script. So rather give the creator some guidelines. And as you said, Rose, it's just some guidance on this is how we usually communicate or like visually, this is how it could go. Like describe a feeling, describe your story integrated in your daily life. And if you pick the right creator, I think you look for the right creators. You spend some time on finding the ones with curly hair or like frizzy hair because they already pitch.

 

When they apply to a campaign, like, I have this problem. I would love to solve it for you in a UTC video almost. And then let them go and interpret the brief, how it fits. And I think this works best. And then using this content and see, I I know that the next scary step is probably then using this type of content that maybe you haven't used before. So I will just test and see what happens. And maybe you just eventually have to accept that raw content also works alongside your polished ads.

 

So I have this conversation every day as well with brands. I think the kind of the guidance that I always line in is actually to think of it in a full funnel manner. And it's like, how can you think of the right content at the right stage? So if you think top of funnel, this is very much about the brand. You you're talking about content, you're talking about the brand, how much I love the brand. think they're cool. These are the values. And what you don't want to do there, if someone's really cool and they fit your brand aesthetic and you really want to work with them.

 

Don't want them to then say, and look, get 10 % off here by using my code. Because that just devalues the brand building piece. It's got to be cool. That's part of it you're trying to do. And then as you go further down the funnel, then it becomes about the product. Then it becomes about the features and the benefits. And actually, that's then when it can be as ropey as you get. In fact, the ropey are the better. And even if you're then just thinking about this content when you're reusing it within your media buy, it's like for your high level top of funnel ants, yep.

 

Paul (21:59.118)

brand, but at the bottom of the funnel, it's ropey, it's product specific. This is how I use it in my day-to-day routine or whatever it is as it comes to this. And I think finding that balance is you probably have to have both to really make that work.

 

I also think for Gen Z, I think I never get them to call out that, there's 10 % off or anything, because I think it really devalues the authenticity. Because I know that some brands do that. just sometimes will do it for maybe like a millennial creator. But for Gen Z, I would always maybe just maybe put like save 10 % in the caption or something like that. I would never get them to speak it, because I just don't think it adds to the value.

 

10 % off your AVO, smashed AVOs. So we got some great questions coming in here as well. How do you convince potentially archaic business that they need to move away from thinking top-down marketing is the most important and to invest more in UGC? Love that question.

 

Exactly.

 

Lara (22:53.792)

I think UGC can actually apply to multiple funnels, Tofm of Bov, all of it. there's obviously, I think many people assume that UGC is only used for paid. And then like Rosie said, you have a video ad saying like, hey, this is what's going to do, buy it now. But you can actually create your whole marketing strategy around UGC, use it for top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel, use it in email, website, product pages, just online. It doesn't have to be salesy.

 

probably on organic social use UGC anyway. It's already UGC, doesn't have to be salesy, but then integrated in other funnels as well. We had brands asking if they can use it in TV commercials. Like, yeah, sure, give it a try. If you want to use it for TV commercials, see how it performs there. And you can even use UGC as a brand awareness tool. People coming to your pop-up shops, also great UGC piece, inviting UGC creators to your events so they film a day in their life also works.

 

I managed to get it over the line because Twirl does this great thing where you just buy the credits. So it's not like a monthly payment. So it's perfect. So like if you just wanted to test say like a couple pieces of content, you know, there's not, it's not a massive investment at the beginning. So I think that's a really good, like the way you strategize your business is amazing to get brands into it, to be able to show, and then you put it on the platforms.

 

show obviously it works best and then you can kind of take that to the business and and yeah show them that this is the way you should be going.

 

I like that. So Beth's asked, there's been a lot of talking about being authentic, but what does it mean to be authentic as a brand?

 

Lara (24:38.924)

Yeah, that's actually a good question. Authentic. Yeah, even a TV commercial can be authentic. I would say authenticity for me personally is when you're consistent with your messaging and then bring it into different content types almost so you don't change course overnight again because you feel like, this didn't work last week, so let's change course again. Just stick for one thing for...

 

a little bit longer because then authenticity is built over trust over a long period of time in my eyes. So it can be UGC, can be founder videos even, and then just stick to it. And I feel like this is building authenticity around your brand, no matter if it's UGC or any other content type.

 

I also it's when you ask yourself, like say you want to do something like you want to do a trend or you want to do a different video, you sit and you ask yourself, does this feel like my brand? Like would my brand do this or would someone that's buying my brand, would they think this is good? And I think that's keeping yourself authentic.

 

So I always think it's the big opportunity that a lot of brands miss is that they're sitting on this incredible pile of authentic fans that will talk about them, which are your customers, your loyalists, whoever's opening your emails or signed up to your CRM, those people there, it's just like, give them a chance.

 

looking at the stats, it's about one in four of them are active social media creators on TikTok and Instagram, and then probably a lot more when you think about LinkedIn, YouTube, Pinterest, Strava. If you think about it, every person here in the room probably does create it in some way. So that number of people is probably a lot higher than we even think it could give it credit for. And so it's actually how do you activate those customers? How do you give them a chance to show up? How do you offer it out? Because I think a lot of time you kind of go around it and just being like, OK,

 

Paul (26:31.468)

right, where are we going to find these authentic people who could talk about us? where are they? It's like, you've got them, as you just said. But they show up, they say, I've got this problem, I'm a massive fan, I'd love to show up for it. And so that kind of Venn diagram has become, the overlap is much bigger. know, 10 years ago, would have been, you know, one person in your customer base that was creating. Now it's going to be edging towards the majority at some point over the next few years from the sounds of things, particularly with this generation. How do you keep up with Gen Z trends, right? They're constantly changing, like they're...

 

They fast, they move, they're there a second and they move again. were talking, Beth was talking about earlier about like a fast content, a slow content, I loved, but like, how are you guys doing as marketing professionals?

 

So what we see other creative strategists do, so I think creative strategists as a whole feel like a new category and job role that came up only recently almost. They used to be the media buyer and then social media manager or paid social manager. And then this middle role was created, which was a creative strategist, which is only basically the person that's doing, overseeing all paid social channels and then interpret this for creators to then create more content almost. We see lots of

 

tools that they use. Maybe you've heard there's 4Play, Vizilabs, Afterlib, AdSpy. It's very strategic advice, but yeah, we see those tools are used on a daily basis. think Vizilabs has some AI integrated that would pop up, I don't know, competitor ads, and then see what's best performing. So I think there are lots of tools coming up recently in the last two, three years that it's only dedicated for this specific role that...

 

need to keep up with all these trends because it changes overnight and the next day you refresh and have got more competitor ads or more inspirational ads that you can use for your next campaign. And then you obviously need to act fast because it just changes so quickly.

 

Rosie (28:21.888)

I kind of take it from my own life when I'm scrolling on TikTok and I see kind of, this trend would work really well for us. Again, we kind of, don't hop on all the trends. We don't want to, we only want to do ones that feel authentic to us. So I think it's about obviously keeping up with them and having knowledge of what's going on, but also picking and choosing the right ones that you want to hop on.

 

Do you feel anxious that you're missing out on whatever is the hot new thing? So no. Does anyone else here feel anxious all the time? No? Good. Well done. Izzy's got a great question. What's your opinion on brands using culture and entertainment to target Gen Z? And how are you harnessing this as part of your strategy for your clients and brands? It's such an interesting phase now where we were talking about earlier that brands have been completely personified.

 

No.

 

Paul (29:10.88)

and that they now have a way of having a conversation with their customers that they never previously had. It used to be that you'd sell through a retailer and that retailer would kind of own the customer, but even then it was mostly done in stores. But actually now it's gone D to C. Plus we've got all these social media channels, which are these conversation channels where we can have a back and forth. That just never existed before. And so now a brand can be a person, it can have a personality, have an opinion, it stands for various things. So like actually...

 

I think people are leaning on brands in a way that they used to lean on culture that we never used to have. don't know if you are you seeing like your customers are coming to you with day to day problems, nothing to do with your products. You're hearing them like having conversations in the community around them. I've been hearing this a couple of times.

 

I think our comment sections are full of people just chatting away. I guess content then inspires different thoughts and different feelings and emotions.

 

Yeah. And so I think so the final one here is we've got 20 seconds to go. What advice would you give to get brands to buy in or leverage UGC? Belief in trust isn't enough. So what do you use?

 

yeah, think it's letting go of that control, of that fear of using UTC. I think that's my biggest advice. I know it's painful, but just let the creator do their work and trust in the creator. I think that's the best thing you can try to get the foot in the door of UTC.

 

Rosie (30:35.438)

Yeah, I'd say find the right creators for your brand.

 

I'd say run an A-B test. Be very easy, put some media, same budget, same everything, just different content and see which one performs best. It'll be the UGC. Thank you guys so much. Laura and Rosie, that was fantastic.

 

Thank you!